<div dir="ltr">Gerry,<br>thanks for this 'heads up'. I would like to know (from presumably Andrew Kirkpatrick?) what is the current status re the development of success criteria for the testing of content and applications using formats and technologies such as PDF and Flex against WCAG 2.0. It would appear to me that developers and designers and indeed auditors of web content and applications do not have the techniques documents or success criteria to allow them to develop for or audit against WCAG 2.0.<br>
<br>Am I missing something here?<br>Regards,<br>Dónal.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2008/9/11 Eamon Mag Uidhir <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:eamon@maguidhir.com">eamon@maguidhir.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
<br>
<br>
That's a very interesting conversation with Adobe.<br>
<br>
Can anybody help with the following query?<br>
<br>
If somebody wants to avoid Adobe licensing costs (and Microsoft<br>
licensing costs), is there a surefire way to get OpenOffice's PDF<br>
output of a word processing document (whether originated in Word or in<br>
OpenOffice itself) to be accessible?<br>
<br>
Is it just a question of keeping it simple and using a proper heading<br>
style hierarchy? What do tables need to have in them to get them to be<br>
accessible when exported to PDF?<br>
<br>
OpenOffice doesn't seem to offer users any means of tweaking the PDF<br>
Export function (which from version 2.4 is providing a bookmarks tree<br>
based on heading strructure and not just a flat printable version of<br>
the document) so it appears from a superficial investigation that any<br>
accessibility aspects in the output will need to be built into the<br>
source document.<br>
<br>
Eamon<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Éamon Mag Uidhir<br>
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''<br>
<a href="mailto:eamon@maguidhir.com">eamon@maguidhir.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
RESPONDING TO Gerry Ellis <<a href="mailto:gellis@gofree.indigo.ie">gellis@gofree.indigo.ie</a>>:<br>
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
<br>
<br>
> Hi,<br>
><br>
> I wrote a while back that I am in contact with Adobe in relation to the<br>
> accessibility of their products including documents in PDF format.<br>
><br>
> Please find below some questions I asked and answers from their<br>
> accessibility manager in the States (his answers are preceeded by the<br>
> letters AWK).<br>
><br>
> I will meet him shortly when he is in Dublin. I would be interested in your<br>
> comments on the answers below ASAP so that I can have further discussions<br>
> with him before he arrives.<br>
><br>
> Thanks.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Take Care,<br>
><br>
> Gerry Ellis<br>
><br>
> Tel +353-(0)1 282-7791<br>
> Mob +353-(0)85 716-8665<br>
><br>
> If you don't know where you're going,<br>
> How will you know when you get there?<br>
><br>
><br>
> ======= Original Message =======<br>
><br>
> 1. We understand that the free Adobe Acrobat Reader deliberately slows down<br>
> the opening of PDF documents as compared with the professional product. If a<br>
> screen reader or other assistive technology is detected this slowing down<br>
> should be skipped.<br>
><br>
> AWK: This is not true, totally opposite. Acrobat9 /Reader 9 even include<br>
> something known as Delay Load Plugins so if a PDF document doesn't need a<br>
> plug-in, like Forms, then the app launches much faster for everyone. There<br>
> isn't a difference for AT users, except if the document isn't tagged, in<br>
> which case there is a delay while Acrobat adds the tags.<br>
><br>
> 2. Navigating around PDF documents is dreadfully poor as compared to doing<br>
> so in a WORD or Text document or on a web site. For instance, when the user<br>
> performs a search he/she cannot then return to the body of the document.<br>
><br>
> AWK: we'll need more info here, can you navigate a word document by<br>
> headings? I'm not sure this is true about Search but also need more detail<br>
> or a demo.<br>
><br>
> 3. Access to Tables within PDF documents is particularly poor.<br>
><br>
> AWK: is this for tables that have been authored correctly also?<br>
><br>
> 4. When reading documents that contain more than one column of information<br>
> or which contain boxes within the main texxt, the text is jumbled when read<br>
> using a screen reader.<br>
><br>
> AWK: sounds like poor authoring for the PDF in question. We can do a demo.<br>
><br>
> 5. Exporting PDF documents to text does not help as the results are often<br>
> the same as described in 4. above.<br>
><br>
> AWK: sounds like poor authoring - if the document is tagged well do you get<br>
> the same result?<br>
><br>
> 6. Using forms within PDF documents is particularly troublesome. This is<br>
> greatly increased when the dynamic forms facility is used to increase the<br>
> complexity of the forms.<br>
><br>
> AWK: we'll need more info here - the comment is a little too abstract.<br>
><br>
> 7. Problems using Adobe PS and Flash were also reported and several aspects<br>
> of these products are inaccessible. This includes an inability to access<br>
> some buttons and to export the data to more accessible formats.<br>
><br>
> AWK: This is using the Flash authoring tool and Photoshop authoring tool?<br>
><br>
> 8. Guidelines<br>
> There seems to be two distinct pieces of work being done on Guidelines:<br>
> a) EUAIN. (The Adaptive Content Network)<br>
> <a href="http://www.euain.org" target="_blank">www.euain.org</a><br>
> This project has worked with CEN leading to a workshop on accessible<br>
> documentation. Details can be found at:<br>
> <<a href="http://www.cen.eu/cenorm/businessdomains/businessdomains/isss/activity/ws-dpa.asp" target="_blank">http://www.cen.eu/cenorm/businessdomains/businessdomains/isss/activity/ws-dpa.asp</a>><br>
><br>
> b) AIIM - The Enterprise Content Management Association<br>
> <a href="http://www.aiim.org" target="_blank">www.aiim.org</a><br>
> The Universal Accessibility Group of AIIM is working with the National<br>
> Federation of the Blind and others in the U. S. to develop guidelines on<br>
> making PDF documents accessible. See<br>
> <a href="http://www.aiim.org/standards/article.aspx?ID=27861" target="_blank">http://www.aiim.org/standards/article.aspx?ID=27861</a><br>
><br>
> Are these two initiatives compatible? Are they working towards a common set<br>
> of guidelines? What is being done to implement these guidelines? How can we<br>
> as users know that a document is developed according to these guidelines?<br>
><br>
> AWK: I need to learn more about EUAIN to comment.will read up.<br>
><br>
> 9. Interoperability<br>
> There is a great need to develop the ability to convert PDF and PS documents<br>
> gracefully and without jumbling text into other formats including XML,<br>
> DAISY, CHM, html and .BRF (Braille).<br>
><br>
> AWK: Will be interested in how you prioritize this list of formats.<br>
><br>
> 10. Updating the Software<br>
> A box frequently appears asking if the software should be updated. This is<br>
> just an annoyance. Also, the download is very large so is not suitable to be<br>
> download by many people who can only afford relatively old computers and<br>
> slow Internet access. There is a high unemployment rate amongst people with<br>
> disabilities, thus they frequently do not have the disposable income to<br>
> afford faster machines and Internet access.<br>
><br>
> AWK: A familiar comment - this doesn't impact AT users disproportionately,<br>
> it is troublesome for many. You can uncheck "check for updates" in the<br>
> preferences, but the updates are valuable when there are patches for<br>
> security or other issues.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Irl-dean mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Irl-dean@list.eeng.dcu.ie">Irl-dean@list.eeng.dcu.ie</a><br>
> <a href="http://list.eeng.dcu.ie/mailman/listinfo/irl-dean" target="_blank">http://list.eeng.dcu.ie/mailman/listinfo/irl-dean</a><br>
><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Irl-dean mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Irl-dean@list.eeng.dcu.ie">Irl-dean@list.eeng.dcu.ie</a><br>
<a href="http://list.eeng.dcu.ie/mailman/listinfo/irl-dean" target="_blank">http://list.eeng.dcu.ie/mailman/listinfo/irl-dean</a></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Dónal Rice<br>Senior ICT Advisor<br>
Centre for Excellence in Universal Design<br>National Disability Authority<br>email: <a href="mailto:drice@nda.ie">drice@nda.ie</a>, <a href="mailto:drice.nda@gmail.com">drice.nda@gmail.com</a><br>Tel: + 353 (0)1 608 0430<br>
<a href="http://www.universaldesign.ie">http://www.universaldesign.ie</a><br><a href="http://www.accessIT.nda.ie">http://www.accessIT.nda.ie</a><br>
</div>